Minutes from the first Linux certification coordination meeting on 17.10.02
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Agenda:

  * introduction (Wolfgang v.Rüden)
  * formalities:
     - name (suggestions?)
     - chair person, secretary
     - meeting style (regular vs ad-hoc)
     - reporting
  * objectives and scope of the "Linux certification coordination body"
  * "hot topics" / next agenda


Participants (affiliation):

	Bruce Barnett		(ATLAS-online
	Eric Cano		(CMS-online)
	Marco Cattaneo		(LHCb)
	Günter Duckeck		(ATLAS-offline)
	Benigno Gobbo		(non-LHC experiments
	Jan Iven		(IT-services catchall)
	Nicolas de Metz-Noblat  (PS/CO)
	Bernd Panzer-Steindel   (IT/ADC)
	Jarek Polok		(Desktop)
	Fons Rademakers		(ALICE)
	Wolfgang von Rüden	(IT)
	Tim Smith		(IT PLUS/BATCH)
	Stephan Wynhoff		(CMS-offline)
excused:
	Alastair Bland		(SL/CO)	


The meeting started with an introduction from Wolfgang, in which he
outlined the reasons for this new body to be created (perceived
sluggishness of certifications, CLUG not a representative body). He
pointed out the need to collaborate with CLUG (e.g. by attending CLUG
meetings and have decision-taking meetings shortly after subjects
could be discussed openly in CLUG), as well as the need for long-term
commitments for collaboration.

Formalities:
	Name:
           no conclusive result, left open. Proposals:
           * LCCC: Linux certification coordination committee:
             - too many 'CCC's already
             - easy to confuse with LCG
           * LXCERT:
             - CERT is Computer Emergency Response Team (computer security)
           * LXGO:
             - no suitable expansion to the acronym found
          
	Secretary: J.Polok
	Chair: J.Iven
	Meetings: to be announced in advance, preferably for the whole
                  certification in question. For this round (7.3.1), the
	          following dates were set:
		  Thursday, 31.10.02, 10:00  (topic: compiler)
		  Thursday, 14.11.02, 10:00
        Reporting: FOCUS for start/status/end of certifications
	           CLUG when possible
                   DTF  when subject overlap
                   minutes to be sent to linux-certification@cern.ch

Proposed scopes and objectives:
 * to monitor the certification process: accepted

 * to implement the process:

    Some discussion, with general agreement that CERN customization
    should be minimized in order to benefit from Red Hat
    certifications and to make live easier for outside
    institutes. Discussion drifted to compilers and multiple versions
    of software. Attendants agreed to map their dependencies. Still
    looking for a tool to help managing these dependencies.

 * to decide CERN-wide issues:
    (example: compiler. started discussion, but deferred to next
    meeting so that the relevant external experts can have a say. Clearly
    an important topic)

Overall agreement on the proposed objectives was achieved.

Some details of the discussions:

 * need for explicit dependencies was pointed out, should allow to
   certify for a given usage.

 * Release frequency:
   4x per year is too often. Propose to have 1 major release every
   12-18month (following vendor release), 1-2 minor per year.

 * Best time to certify:
   - before the end of the year (accelerator shutdown)
   - consensus not easy
   - certify != immediate implementation. As long as upgrade happens
     "relatively soon", this is acceptable. Support for old releases is
      non-negligible, mostly due to security problems. Shared
      resources (PLUS/BATCH) may need to be upgraded in stages and
      should be used to heighten pressure for migration (new machines
      should be running the new version, old version left on slow/few
      machines)

 * Announced cut-off dates for old versions are ok, they allow for
   planned upgrades